The Intimacy of Imperfection

Since childhood, we have been so conditioned by our never-ending quest for approval that we attempt to project a ‘perfect’ image of ourselves to the World in order to be loved. We hide our failings and less attractive qualities from the people around us and present an edited ‘brochure’ of who we are. We think that if people saw our less charming sides that they wouldn’t love us as much.

But the truth is, when we meet someone who is comfortable to be seen in all their lights and shadows, it is the most refreshing experience imaginable. When someone is unashamed of their imperfection, suddenly that so-called fault becomes strangely attractive. Here we see that it’s not the quality that is unattractive but our shame around it.

I don’t only want to meet your ‘good’ sides. I want to meet you in your wholeness, warts and all. As we reveal more and more of our crazy diversity, there is more and more of each other to love and laugh about. And so more intimacy is felt and we go deeper still.

This was the core of the song ‘Wounded In All The Right Places’ we wrote for KD Lang to sing in our last 1 Giant Leap film ‘What About Me?’ – here’s that song:

What part of you would be a challenge and a relief to let us see?  Please let us know by commenting below. I’m scanning my own list as I ask this:  hmmm…….abandonment terror…….panic attack casualty…….fascist dictator….so many to choose from.

What About Intimacy weekends at http://www.jamiecatto.com/about_intimacy

77 comments

  1. I love what you’re doing here – brilliant work – me, it would be my fearful, insecure, unconfident aspect, though as you know I don’t have too much trouble wearing it on my sleeve when it’s up. Love you

  2. The first socially negative thing people see about me is my size. I am so ashamed of it that I have withdrawn from all but necessary social situations. Since thinking about intimacy and how and why it scares me I have decided to address the issue of my physicality by including it in my work. I am in the process of videoing, drawing and casting my naked body. I’m not entirely sure what I’m trying to say yet but just doing it is a major step forward.

    P.S I’m typing this naked.

    No, I’m not. I wouldn’t inflict that on the dog 😀

    • I so relate stacey … aged 57 I have been chronically inhibited by size (and apathy) issues for the duration … last winter my dear sister suggested that I should try the ‘five tibetan rites’ (google/utube) … six months later I have finally followed her advice … effin’ hard work, but truly worthwhile … they target the glandular system, and the results, 10 days in, are quite remarkable : spontaneous weight loss, much better shape, healthier sleep pattern, calmer, more social, muscle tone and many etceteras … take it easy if you decide to give it a try … the videos say that it’s a fifteen minute sequence … when I started it was taking me three quarters of an hour … now I’m down to half an hour ! … please let me know how you get on … :~) ………

      • Thanks for that 🙂 Unfortunately I have CFS and Fibromyalgia and the only excercise I can tolerate (on very infrequent occasions) is gentle swimming. I had a brilliant pilates teacher but she moved away and I’ve never found anyone since who was so good at working around my condition. Thank you for thinking of me though.

    • I love your response…true honesty mixed with a dash of humor!!! I share a movement practice called NIA…check it out might be a great tool for you…if you go to a class you’ll have to put clothes on but if you get a DVD you could do it naked at home!

  3. Controlfreak … not being able to let go, those would be my challenging aspects… Great stuff here, we’d love to make it to one of your workshops at some point down the line, Jamie, being One-Giant-Leap-followers ever since. We’re about to embark on a one-year journey of our own however, so the workshops will have to wait.

  4. All the usual including over sensitivity about life in general and finding it hard to be an optimist (people hate when you’re honest about life) but also fear of being judged for having a chronic illness because what doesn’t show doesn’t exist so it must be mostly in my own head (and my behavioural patterns aren’t understood). It’s hard to exist in an intimate relationship when it’s always there, always in the way, always getting a little bit worse.

    • yes living with “invisible” illness is frustrating. I come across as bubbly and positive, and I am, but I also have that dark side which comes out in my creative writing. what is it that people don’t see of me? anger at other’s insensitivity, frustration about how unfair the world is, the otherwise open wounds that come with having chronic allergies, a lifetime of arthritis pain, and mild narcolepsy, which is mostly a source of amusement for everyone else, though for me it is a daily obstacle to things I want to accomplish in my life.

      • wow that sounds intense – not to be trite, but is there any super-hero training you’re getting out of this situation?

    • I share your pain Vivi. I find there is a deep loneliness, isolation and separateness that comes from having a chronic illness that is not seen, nor understood, by others. I become “too difficult” to include / cater for / understand / accommodate etc etc. And what I find even more frustrating about this is that I don’t want to use my condition as an excuse, nor do I want to be labelled, nor do I want to have to justify myself to others. However if I don’t explain, I live in glorious isolation. It seems it’s not always okay to be “myself” – warts and all! (well, they’re not actually “warts”, but you know what I mean 🙂 ).

  5. I can’t wait to join you on one of your workshops. Hope to see you soon in Barcelona. And my darkest qualities resemble so much yours…panic attack casualty, selfrighteous dictator, fear of abandonement, plus fear of being rejected and alone, fear of being too childish/too boringly oldish, fear of enjoying things too much just in case i get too attached to them and then i suffer when they’re over……

    Thanks for the example you give and helping us open up 🙂

  6. The fighter….Very aggressive side to me. I would knock them over and not look back in sports. The more boys I could beat at the game…the better.

  7. Beautiful song, I have always been drawn to her voice, lovely. Hmmm my perfectionist uptight control freak lazy sloth self-righteous protection of my pain my divinity my femininity. Explains a lot! x

  8. So many intimate relationships have ended for me once I opened up and let the other person see the true me with all my flaws and imperfections; which are consequential of my life experiences and make up who I am. These wibbly wobbly fears present themselves triumphantly as abandonment issues, physical insecurities, I am not good enough and I am not worth loving emotions and turn me into a tangled web of nervousness.
    I do see another persons insecurities as part of who they are and these fears are what makes them truly beautiful to me. I hope that the next big love will see that I am only so nervous because I am excited by who is standing infront of me.
    I hope that we all recognise our insecurities as gifts and those who accept these gifts are the people that we choose to surround ourselves with.

    • your next love will see what you allow them to see – that’s the risk and the bounty in one, but sharing without shame and expectation of rejection, there’s a challenge!

  9. I so love this song..and to use your words; ‘`i feel it all’ If anything is a challenge for me, it is this..even as I type this my heart is opening & expanding beyond my capacity to contain it. I generally ‘act normal’, not expressing those feelings..awe, wonder, deep grief, compassion..It means I get the laundry done and I don’t freak people out!!

  10. Well done with the song Jamie… My imperfections envelope me… I am wounded child, scarred adult and fighting soult… I wear armor to protect my quivering and fearful spirit… With the intentions to love, I overwhelm and create fairytales…In anger I become a monster and when I feel the slight pulling away of a lover, I push them so far away that I can no longer see them.. I fear being “crazy” often and when tangled in that fear I abandon myself and the world around me…

    • beautifully and lyrically expressed, thank you – I feel oxygen around this even as we share it, thank you for your openness

  11. I’m gonna throw something else at you Jamie… for sometime now I have been thinking that what scares people off is in fact not what I hide but what I show without compromise… yes it does attract loads of people at first… but then they inevitably run a mile (or more)…
    I still rather be single than being in a relationship where I’d have to present the edited version of myself but… hmmm… so far I’m left with no answer other than being on my own…
    Would love to do the Intimacy workshop (maybe London in October !?!)… and get covered in some more of your magic dust…

    Loads of Love XX

      • It hasn’t always been the case but I really do think yes, good and bad, now days! Is it too scary for others ?!?

        I sit in my solitude with no fear… open to the embrace…

        XX

  12. controlling,terrified,vain,ALWAYS right,Overly Moralistic,grudge bearing,abhors criticism of any description,Snobby, egotistical,Quite stupid……..to name but a few of my lovable shadow aspects…. You gotta love me really at least i’m impeccably honest

  13. Wet my pants when I laugh! Soooo socially unacceptable! 🙂
    Scared of what is happening in the world but am trying to be a part of the solution with permaculture. Have given up on soft clean hands.

  14. haha, where to begin? Needy, fear of abandonment, fear of love, hyper-sensitive… and thats just on a good day! All hidden behind a super-woman mask. Except i ditched the mask last year and its been great ever since 🙂 xxx

  15. I had an ‘awakening’ in February of 2010. Previous to that, I spent about 20 years of my life bouncing through prolonged episodes of deep, often suicidal depression, with bouts of agoraphobia, anxiety and so on mixed in.

    Now, I’d class myself as one of the happiest, most content people on the planet. Every day is part of the adventure, and even though I get down at times, it’s not comparable to my life before.

    I write about my experiences, very candidly, on my blog, and while people on the interlands seem to appreciate my words, when it comes to personal relationships, the honesty becomes something of a problem, because – possibly due to the same conditioning that makes so many of us feel compelled to wear masks – they assume that I’ve just masked over the previous problems and issues in my life, and those problems and issues could return.

    Society is cynical, but sometimes – and very definitely in my case – leopards do change their spots, so to speak. 🙂

    The song title – ‘Wounded in all the right places’ – seems very apt, since, if it weren’t for all those times of darkness, sadness, fear and anxiety in my life, I wouldn’t have reached this state of enlightenment. Looking back, I can see all the formerly invisible signposts that pointed to now… and I am so happy. I had to walk through that pain to make it here.

    It would be a relief to find someone who could see that and accept my past, but that’s the challenge, too. Like Federica67, I can’t compromise on being just me.

    Apart from that, I do get very sad when I think of lonely kittens.

  16. and when we share something perfectly imperfect about ourselves and are met with love and acceptance a little piece of us dies and is reborn…

  17. I get obsessed and attached to women, to the extent I want their attention to feel loved. When I got attached or obsessed with someone, I wanted to have them for myself. Jeleousy, manipulation and control u name, I did it all. It even got to the extent I “thought” I was lesbian and I had several relationships and romantic affairs with women since I was 16, I enjoyed the secretable life and the “forbiddeness”. I often seduced girl friends and manipulated until I got what I wanted, I usually acted like a friend and then of course I couldn´t be their friend anymore. I knew somewhere that my behaviour was not well but couldnt put the finger on what was wrong. I wanted confirmation and love and everytime I succeded in “a new adventure” I could tell my self I was good.
    After meeting a very aware friend that saw me for who I am, without judgement, I became aware of my patterns. And now when I have seen myself completely I feel grateful for this awareness and I realized all of this happened because I didnt love myself and that is what I am learning now and I also know I desire men not women. I still get attached to women I like but now I am aware of it and I am grateful for seeing the truth and sharing it.
    Thank u

  18. I enjoyed reading this short yet deeply insightful view of our human personality in action. The truth is that in my search for a new definition of love I’ve stumbled upon this post which if applied in its entirety would epitomize the true meaning of respectful appreciative LOVE between people. It is the acceptance of one another that allows us to both love each other’s flaws yet at the same time feel comfortable to be imperfect and down to earth.

  19. Ok, Jamie – you win 🙂 Here goes the long list of things that are generally keep well below the surface:
    depressive – melancholic
    aggressive – angry
    controlling
    possessive
    jealous
    When I hit the down cycles and go all quiet and apathetic, I tend to withdraw from the world and reduce social contact because I feel under pressure to talk, be positive, be entertaining, jolly. I am actually more of an introvert anyway but have been struggling all my life with wanting and trying to be an extrovert and like some of my “world-embracing” friends. What a struggle…

      • Mm, no I don’t think so, then again I am trying less and less to be someone else because it’s a futile exercise…

  20. Hmm…bringing up those things I’d rather keep inside…..lazy can’t be arsed attitude, need to control, myself and others, jealousy, needy, shy, coupled with the need to hide.
    All this got me to thinking how difficult it is sometimes to honour the beautiful sides of ourselves too, I began the list..orgainised, energized, vibrant, inspiring, open. Bringing the realization that they are the light and dark of us as you say, the positive and negative, not only in how we see ourselves, but how we show ourselves and how others perceive us. They are all dualities of our nature, to be embraced for what they are, energetic matter – emotions that change rapidly from moment to moment.

    • I do love Unity and all that – but I am here on earth to have a HUMAN experience, which is NOT beyond duality and beyond SELF – I feel I’m here to experience light and dark and up and down and you and me as a human in duality – while always retaining the truth that at the same time, in the ‘higher’ realms, we are connected and all One thing

  21. America, Brasil, anywhere… there are individuals with unique perspectives on this. For sure there are places (Miami, LA, Rio) where the majority have been programmed to seek ‘perfection’. Honestly… the subject is such a sensitive one …for me right now. I’ve just spent 6-months dating someone who says my body has changed so much in that time frame that he is no longer sexually attracted to me. I got a yeast infection and that terrified him to the point where he could barely touch me. I have stared in the mirror more than I did when I was a professional dancer… (don’t think I look much different…if anything maybe better)… and I am struggling to keep my beliefs in check… which are that we are all perfectly imperfect… and that seeing ourselves and each other as brilliantly unique flawed reflections of each other. There is a mirror in all that I do. What you see in me is also in you. There is a mirror in all that I see. What I find in you is also in me. Wrote that 20+ years ago and continue to live by it 😉

  22. Jamie thanks, what you are talking about is so close to me now. The more I accept all about me, the more fulfilled I am.
    Ive been in the spiritual path for so many years and I think I understand ALL in many senses, but the danger of this is to think you can avoid or deny the most human reactions.
    For example my father died one year ago and I was with him until last minute, I talked to him about we are not this body, I helped him to overcome his fears, I gave him confidence for going out, I slept with him and listen his last breath… and I thank GOD for giving me this privileged and felt among my family that I was the only one spiritually prepared for this task.
    But only until yesterday, one year later, I did not recognized this was a super strong experience for me to lived, to haved witnessed his pain, his suffering, his fear. Only yesterday I gave to me permission to express my weakness and manifest how strong and difficult this experience was. Only after that, my sinus pain in the forehead that I had been felling for 3 days, began to disappear…
    I was great because only after I expressed it, I could listen from one friend one simple answer :Its all over. But that simple answer was so much healing for me. .
    Padma

  23. Insatiable need, cold-hearted and cruel, commodified nymphomaniac. Obesessive narcissist. Fat, ugly. I’ll take all of: panic attack casualty, selfrighteous dictator, fear of abandonement, plus fear of being rejected and alone, fear of being too childish/too boringly oldish, fear of enjoying things too much just in case i get too attached to them and then i suffer when they’re over……
    Also, God complex. Also, physical allergic reaction to intense intimacy. BORING. LAZY. FAILURE. Err, manic depressive? Also, does kind acts every day to both random strangers and people that I’m very close to that I partially hate. And that’s not all guilt and self-justification. It’s actually love. Heart like the sea. Instinctive visceral genius. Oracle.

  24. You are an inspiration Jamie. In my experience striving to be perfect is something you do to gain love and approval but gaining that is on a false basis. Being genuine is often made difficult because that primary means releasing your true thoughts and feelings, something not always accepted by the other person who e.g. may attempt to win the argument rather than respect your integrity. If you hold onto your real feelings, in fear of the consequences, for too long, then you can lose a sense of the real you and so a sense of identity. Your words enable the reader to recognise that they have choices in life, and for some that may mean taking a big risk in saying how they feel and accepting that they may not be listened to or understood, but what is really good for them is that they will have released their thoughts and feelings and as a consequence feel liberated by being one step forward to becoming their own true self, warts and all. Thank you for your words of wisdom and for reaching out to people.

  25. As per usual, you’re irritatingly synchronous with what’s happening in my present and hit the nail on the head in the opening sentence… My desperate need to be accepted, to be loved means that I try and be everything to everyone and all too often, in the trying, it becomes so empty, so false, so contrived… I see my manipulative nature, my crafty strategies and my weakness in the face of them… My weakness to stand up and own my stuff, to take responsibility… Here it is, my selfish, self centred, me me me… Wanting, needing, craving love but in the process of trying I end up hurting those who love me already…

    Thank you Jamie and Raisa, for the mirror x

  26. It’s so good to read all the amazingly vulnerable responses to this post…
    and it feels quite addictive, once you begin to accept where you are and expose all the crap you’ve been trying to make sense of, hide or just allow to worry your head you are free to Be! Thank you thank you thank you for starting the coolest trend since… errrrm… long skirts over trousers in 1998??? xxx

  27. Wow, what a powerful blog this is and look at all those responses! I think I just found my virtual tribe!!! I think everyone’s pretty much captured most of my own vulnerable, ashamed, fu*ked-up-ness that makes me, as a 46 year old wonder why the hell I act like a 4-to-6 year old so much of the time, especially when it comes to wanting (needing? / crying? / cringing? / running from & to?) an intimate relationship. Probably explains why I’ve been in the social equivalent of a desert for the last 15 years and the pain of isolation is excrutiating. I’ve been out here for so long, I’ve almost lost the path back. Ouch! I think it’s what the Hakomi people describe as being at the barrier – wanting to connect and being so goddamned terrified because I haven’t a clue what the hell I’m doing and how to be. I get all kind of knotted up and screwy in the stomach even thinking about it. Feels better to have expressed that though. The bizarre thing about all this is that I actually REALLY like my interior life – I am soft, generous, kind, loving, giving, supportive, nurturing, creative, insightful, intuitive, accepting, and yet it is this soft underbelly that has been kicked (literally and figuratively) in the past that I now keep hidden away and I can see, witness and feel the tragedy of not sharing this with the world. Aaagghh, the dilemma of not feeling safe to be vulnerable and open regardless of the sh*tstorm that may … or may not … be out there.

  28. Laugh about our imperfections, for me is iresistebly attractive and beautyfull…

  29. Controlling of social situations (playing music, performing; I’m good at it and people love me when I do this!), wary of people (comes across as arrogant) , lack of trust in men in particular, too open to the point of not looking after myself, then cutting off so as not to get too close (control or self preservation?!.. denying myself the right to be loved?.. )… I think I do understand it’s a result of being laughed at and ridiculed/embarrassed for the way I looked and how I thought as a child experiencing extreme hospitalised sceptic eczema, for nearly a year ( I was UGLY, man), bullying, anorexia and alopecia due to stress and abandonment at a young age, the eczema and ‘ugliness’ being the main bit. I think I’m quite arrogant, but it’s the ever present, constant, underlying self depreciation that sporns my daemons and puts people off being close to me, and me being close to them.
    My amazing ability to lie and pretend.

  30. I just re-read that, and got all jittery that my last comment cancelled everything out, I mean, I didn’t lie or pretend about any of it, I meant in relationships with people, about who I really am, I try to pretend I’m really cool and sorted, when I’m not really, I’m just another person, with insecurities and passions, maybe a bit extreme in darkness and light, but, yeah, well, I’m good at trying to pretend I’m alright anyway. That’s what I meant!

  31. For me it’s being depressed and feeling deep anxiety now and then. Unfortunatly I have come to learn that this condition must be handled alone, on my own. People around me who I have shown it, doesn´t know how to cope.
    It’s a night and day version of me, and those who care about me doesn’t seem to understand how both can exist in me; they are too contradictory.

  32. Hi Jamie, for me its poetic and revelatory that ‘Wounded in all the right places’ means the same as ‘Healing in all the right places’, what a beautiful song, performance, recording, really special.

    Simon Heyworth did amazing work to turn an album of my songs I recorded called ‘Perfect Train’ from unlistenable (certainly not fit for commercial release) into something to be proud of for all concerned.

    A central theme of the record is the lack of intimacy which comes with perfectionism, so I thought I should share here the short true story of the song ‘Perfect Train’, aka ‘Washing Dishes for Dylan in 1987’:

    http://www.myspace.com/martinjamesmusic/blog

    And here’s the song/track as mastered by Simon itself:

    http://martinjames.bandcamp.com/track/perfect-train

    In my own way I’m saying the same kind of thing as the brave and honest souls who have shared here on your site, I hope I’m giving something back for the good things have been given here.

    Simon talked with great affection and admiration about the 1GL project he contributed to.

    Best wishes,

    Martin

  33. […] In May, through a whole series of synchronicities, coincidences and kindnesses, I was lucky enough to have a one-on-one coaching session with one of my heroes, Jamie Catto.  He was incredibly generous to offer me his guidance, experience and insights.  I’ve been following his work since he created the two 1GiantLeap CDs, and it was a thrill and honor to work with him directly.  Much to my delight, shortly after our session together, he started posting more frequently on his blog.  Little coaching sessions delivered right to my email box!  Nice.  Just a couple of weeks ago, he posted this one on the Intimacy of Imperfection. […]

  34. Not much sleep last night .Yet another rude awakening …yet good to feel more alive again when tears flow ….so here goes nothing !

    I am an out of control control freak ,when I seek control !!
    A big scaredy cat , coming from abandonment Terror , that was very real at age of four BUT not 4 no more ! ! Ummm manipulative ..(part of it)..insecure …. (another part of it )… impatient ….masochistic and possibly bit cruel ….(the terrible twins ! )….people pleaser ….(more of the same )… bit afraid of men ….. All hiding behind high functioning woman …. trying to look good ! Phew !

    Apart from that all good ! : )
    But as Shakspeare said …..Nothing is good nor bad but thinking makes it so !

    Softening my energy ….and trying see when I am holding my breath helps !
    So…. simple breathing and staying in my body is a good idea !
    Love dance , singing and cuddles all help to …as does ‘life’ in general ! Accepting the sadness when it comes up helps it to dissipated and loving ‘me’ through the pain…..for the pain is not the essential me ! I live in hope !
    I must of buried it time and time again for it to still need to release but I know if felt life threatening at four and beyond maybe !
    Had an opp recently , so re entry into my body is bit painful emotionally even . Always a bit painful to come home a gain when I leave myself for what ever reason . BUT home comings are good . A RELIEVE ..Bit like the way Jamie’s work shop affected me !

    My lovely son said when he was little , ” If someone was perfect there would be less to love ” ..

  35. Wonderful think was to have the experience of being this song being made. There wasn’t KD’s voice yet until I could listen to it. What a surprise to listen to this track fully made after!
    Nowadays, my son who is a little boy, sings “woooo, aaah, all aaaight paaa… ces” – so cute!
    Thank you so for this moment!

  36. Here’s some work I’ve been doing around how my relationship with/view of my body impacts on my intimate relationships and intimacy in general. I decided just to draw what I saw. Though I did crouch into weird positions to accentuate folds and curves (guess when the postman decided to arrive!) I found that I initially felt disgust but as each piece progressed I started to see beauty in the form and tone. It’s definitely had a knock-on effect on how I view my body. I decided to see how it felt to ‘go larger’ and did the Indian ink and gesso one, which is 1.5m x 1m. It felt good. I’ve let my friends and family see the work so far and the response has been so resoundingly positive that I feel quite weepy #manthefuckupstace

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/53731148@N08/sets/72157631319979260/

  37. The ultimate beauty is imperfection, that one unique aspect of the self that makes you special, we are ALL imperfect (myself moreso than anyone) but I myself find imperfection endearing, almost becomes my favourite aspect of the person.
    Fact is we care too much what other people think of us, be it our appearance (which has been conditioned by the media of “what is beautiful” and anything not fitting that mould SHOULD fit that mould, it is commercial slavery, do this diet, buy this product, buy this car, live in this house, this is your stepford guide to fitting in and standing out…..ironically) or our personalities, we are all unique and there is no definition of how to be, what is acceptable, what is beautiful, what is perfect as it is down to perception. A scar is an imperfection but it is also character and a unique feature. We are a mixture of imperfection placed together and only those who will see that beauty in us are worthy of us.

    To see the beauty in something not considered so is beauty itself, to let go of conditioning, judgement, expectations and see just how beautiful things truly are at essence redefines beauty. You suddenly see the world differently, the saying “stop to smell the flowers” is relevant as it is almost as if you are rediscovering the world.
    Waking up at 5am and standing in the crisp air watching the sunrise feeling as if you are the only person awake right now amidst the sound of the wind, birds, swaying trees is a beautiful moment, being IN the moment, that is beauty, being with a person without judgement, without expectations, without criticism, just acceptance.

  38. Now the irony and honesty in what I have just written above is……although I see the beauty in everyone and everything and believe imperfection is beautiful…..I cannot see it in myself. I am too critical, insecure, almost self hating in both my appearance and personaity, I always believe “I could be/should be better” and have an absurd inability to like myself and my biggest imperfection is the inability to be accepting of myself. I believe one of my lessons in this school of life is self acceptance (so far failing). To stop criticising everything about myself, comparing myself to my absurd yard stick, to stop wishing for “perfection” as nobody is and my demented perception of myself goes against what I believe in. Self acceptance…..It’s a bitch haha. I am 100% imperfect, I accept it mentally….til I look in a mirror…then the bitch is back. Self awareness is a swine.

    Quoting the words of a rapper “I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller” haha

    Still…..if we were all beautiful by our own standards and living our “dream” lives…..we would have no spirit, personality, experiences, growth, soul, etc. I mean “Theres more to life than being ridiculously good looking” – Zoolander……hahaha

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